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Question: Size Matters?

Post has published by Scribbles

This topic contains 3 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Kopuz 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • Keymaster
    Member since: June 9, 2018

    Article The Daily Grind: Does size really matter in MMOs?

    (link: https://massivelyop.com/2019/03/18/the-daily-grind-does-size-really-matter-in-mmos-pvp-battle-size-that-is)

    In regards to the article above “Does size really matter in MMOs”?
    Question:
    1a. What are your thoughts about the article above?
    1b. Does # of players in a raid or battle matter in MMO’s?
    1c. What is excessive?

    • This topic was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Scribbles.
    • This topic was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Scribbles.
    • This topic was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Scribbles.
  • Participant
    Member since: April 5, 2019

    1a. What are your thoughts about the article above?
    Huge scale fights are generally epic.

    1b. Does # of players in a raid or battle matter in MMO’s?
    Absolutely. I do think there’s a time and place for forces of all sizes. The biggest drawback I can think of is performance. Generally, when stacking that many players into a small area, frame rate drop is a big issue. If I drop down to 5 FPS, that’s not fun, and it’s too many players/effects.

    I think a limit to the number of players in a raid is mandatory. Tuning an encounter would be impossible to do if the players could bring as many friends/boxes as they wanted. “Oh hey, this is a hard fight, let’s bring 2,000 people. Sure the first 1,500 will die horribly, but they’re just cannon fodder.”

    1c. What is excessive?
    For PvE/raiding, I feel like the sweet spot is somewhere around 50. The biggest things for me are performance, and tuning. WoW tried to make the tuning a non-issue by making every raid boss scale based on your group size. Two problems arose. 1) there were hidden “breakpoints” in the group sizes since the scaling wasn’t perfectly individualized. 2) They fixed the scaling so it was equal based on number of players, but there was a flaw. Every encounter was designed to only need 2 tanks, so fights became easy/trivial when you would overload on dps players, as the % of tanks/healers in your raid (the low dps players), would drop. Some groups would overpower many mechanics, or flat-out kill the bosses before the mechanics came into play.

    For PvP, I think the main issues are performance, and how ranged attacks/spells function. I primarily play melee/tank classes. In larger scale battles (40+), I find myself being controlled/killed before I even get into range with my opponents. Maybe a few mobility skills would allow better gap closing? I think that would be hard to balance though.

  • Participant
    Member since: May 19, 2019

    I would be very okay in a world that offered 80% of its content as group centric activities (6 to 10 people). You can not put in enough dungeons in the world for me, love them.

    The issue I see in modern MMOs is all of them follow the same pattern now, Mechanical based raids from 10 to 40 people, and you are judged by your item score. So damn boring if you look at the big picture. Give me a game where I can progress over a LONG period of time, and get involved with every bit of the world. Let me do it with a large group of friends and create moments. Have dungeons that take a good bit of work to complete, not a 20 minute speed run.

  • Participant
    Member since: April 17, 2019

    1b. Does # of players in a raid or battle matter in MMO’s?
    Size always matters, but I also believe it is relative to the content that is being attempted. Expect me to edit this reply. I am very tired tonight, but it is long overdue that I post a reply to some of these questions. Hopefully my answers make some sort of sense.

    PvE – I have spent a lot of time on the EQ TLPs and this question made me think of some of the experiences I had on these raids. EQ being so primitive with raid scripting and with the boosted player power on TLPs almost 99% of the fights are simply zerg kills. I don’t think this provides the individual player with much immersion. You had your cleric and warrior rot and everything else was just don’t do something stupid. However, on the TLPs I was a member of guilds that started splitting the raid content as many thin as roster allowed. This is where my entertainment from raiding reached new highs. Every single player and class in the raid was required to be playing at 100% or everyone in the raid would know exactly who was slacking or struggling to understand their role. The content was not challenging but splitting whit as low as number provided a challenge. That gave the true rewarding feeling of defeating the content.

    PvP – For PvP part of this question I found myself thinking about some of the Planetside 2 battles I was part of that had near 500 people involved. I personally loved it! I would be running to the front line and would reach the top of the last hill and see a massive battle taking place. it was just incredible!! However, if the player is someone that wants to have the glory if changing the tides of a battle, when battles are too large that is just impossible. More times than not the victor is determined by zerg, who ever brought the most bodies to the fight. I did however absolutely love every minute of Alterac Valley in WoW. Tons of content to manipulate the tides of the fight.

    1c. What is excessive?
    I mostly covered this in my 1b answer.

    In the end i think a variety of content that requires a variety of numbers would be ideal. Have that boss mob that is determined unkillable in era that guilds unite to attempt (makes sure it has a loot table! lol). Have content that takes 1, 2 or 3 groups. I don’t think size determines the success of a game or players fun. What matters most is challenging well scripted content. I would also have to add I believe majority of content designed for 1 group would provide the player with the most fun and rewarding experiences.

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